You Gotta Hand It to Him

Episode 2: I'd Give My Right Arm

Before the Chaos

Content note: This article discusses a real violent crime and sexual assault in a non-graphic, factual manner.

Some stories don’t begin where you think they do.

This one didn’t start on Mount Lemmon. It didn’t start with disappearance, fake deaths, or police reports. It started decades earlier with a Catholic girl who wanted eight children, a neat home, and a life that made sense.

This episode of Shirley, You Can’t Be Serious peels back the layers of Shirley’s life before everything unraveled. And what emerges isn’t a headline, it’s a human being shaped by history, family, love, fear, and impossible choices.

Shirley’s Dream: Marriage, Motherhood, and Doing Things “Right”

From the beginning, Shirley knew what she wanted. Marriage. Children. Stability. Purpose.

Raised in a traditional Catholic household, she imagined a future that mirrored what she was taught was good and respectable: being a devoted wife, a stay-at-home mom, and raising a big family. Not fame. Not adventure. Just a life that felt safe and whole.

That dream matters because it explains why she tolerated what came later.

A Childhood of Structure, Faith, and Quiet Strength

Shirley grew up during a time when families were strict, money was tight, and expectations were non-negotiable.

Her mother was the ultimate homemaker; sewing clothes by hand, keeping the house spotless, raising children with discipline and devotion. Her father worked in the steel mills, drank heavily, and ruled the house with silence and intimidation. Love existed but it came with fear, guilt, and rules.

This was a home where:

• You did your chores

• You didn’t talk back

• You endured

And Shirley learned early how to endure.

Creativity as Survival

What stands out most in Shirley’s early life is her creativity.

She sewed. She baked. She designed. She wrote. She made felt books for her children: interactive, educational, handmade tools to keep them quiet in church and learning at home. She salvaged bicycles from dumpsters and turned them into treasures. She found beauty where others saw scraps.

Even as a teenager, she was editor of the school newspaper, co-editor of the yearbook, and deeply artistic - yet still awkward, tall, shy, and uncomfortable with attention.

Ironically, she was voted homecoming queen, a role she never wanted and actively tried to avoid.

That contradiction of being admired while feeling unseen follows her through the rest of her life.

Eddie: Charm, Lies, and the Beginning of the Trap

Eddie didn’t enter Shirley’s life loudly. He entered smoothly.

Handsome. Charming. Attentive. Everything Shirley had never experienced before.

He looked like Paul Newman. He said all the right things. He made her feel chosen.

What he didn’t tell her, at least not at first, was the truth:

• He’d been to prison

• He was a professional thief

• He had lost his arm deliberately while incarcerated

• His entire life was built on deception

Shirley believed what many young women are taught to believe: Love can fix him.

It couldn’t.

Pregnancy, Pressure, and a Marriage with No Exit

When Shirley became pregnant, choice disappeared.

This was the early 1960s. Abortion wasn’t an option. Leaving wasn’t acceptable. The solution was simple and brutal: get married.

So she did.

And from that moment forward, her life became a series of compromises made in the name of family, faith, and survival.

Eddie rarely worked. Shirley did. Eddie cheated. Shirley endured. Eddie lied. Shirley covered.

This wasn’t a dramatic collapse, it was a slow erosion.

South Africa: Escape, Illusion, and Another Loss

One of the most surreal chapters of Shirley’s life took place far from home: Johannesburg, South Africa, during the height of apartheid.

With a baby, another pregnancy, and no real plan, Shirley followed Eddie across the world believing, again, that a fresh start could save them.

What she found instead was:

• Financial instability

• Isolation

• Cultural contradictions

• And the first clear signs that Eddie was never going to change

Even so, Shirley built a life there; working, parenting, connecting with people others ignored, forming bonds that crossed racial lines in a deeply segregated society.

When their residency application was denied, they returned home with nothing. No furniture. No savings. No safety net.

Just more debt and more lies.

California, Welfare, and the Moment Everything Snapped

Back in the U.S., Shirley worked for major defense contractors while Eddie drifted, cheated, and stole.

The breaking point came when she discovered her toddlers locked in a room surrounded by broken glass while Eddie was across the courtyard with another woman.

That moment ended the marriage in everything but paperwork.

And then came the lie that changed everything.

The Fake Death That Followed Them Forever

Facing criminal charges, Eddie did the unthinkable: He faked his own death.

A rented boat. A staged accident. A Coast Guard search. Insurance money paid out.

For years, Shirley told everyone, even her children he was gone.

But he wasn’t.

He was alive. Stealing. Running. Changing names. Leaving Shirley to repay the insurance money and answer questions she didn’t know how to explain.

The lie became a family myth. A survival story. A way to protect children from a truth too complicated and painful to untangle.

Why This Story Matters

This episode isn’t just about crime or deception.

It’s about:

• How women were trapped by social rules

• How charm can disguise danger

• How trauma echoes across generations

• And how survival sometimes looks like silence

Shirley wasn’t weak. She was conditioned to endure.

And that distinction matters.

Coming Up Next

The story doesn’t end here.

Next time on Shirley, You Can’t Be Serious, we follow what happens after the fake death - when Ed resurfaces, when the lies multiply, and when Shirley’s children begin to see the cracks in the story they were told.

Because some truths don’t stay buried forever.

🎙️ Listen to the full episode of Shirley You Can’t Be Serious wherever you get your podcasts.

Full Episode Transcript: Dead serious media.

 The following episode contains topics intended for mature audiences.

 This story didn't start on Mount Lemmon. In fact, Steven Skaggs was Shirley's second husband. I didn't even come into the picture until Shirley married her third husband, my dad.

 Let's start at the beginning with Shirley and how she met her first husband, ed.

 Well, ever since I was a little girl mm-hmm. My dream was to get married. Get married and have children, specifically eight children. So I wanted to be happily married, be a stay at home mom, and raise eight children. Okay. That was my dream.

Eight boys, eight girls. No, A mixture. A mixture of boys and girls. So that was my dream.

 We sat down and talked with Eddie Shirley's son.

 April 26. 2025 Tucson, Arizona.

 I guess this, this is gonna be weird 'cause

the person that you knew, um, is a very different person than, than the one that I grew up with.

And, um, and, you know, I, I loved my mom, but that's, you could almost say. That's the obligatory thing, you know, for any, any son to do. And I respect her as a person, you know, but from my sister and i's perspective, it's like I wouldn't have wished that on anybody, you know? If I'm gonna wish something for somebody, I would wish them much better, you know, than, than the life that, that we lived.

 and now the story of a rap sheet from one coast to the other two babies. And my stepmother, Shirley, a good Catholic girl, tolerating it all. 

I'm Amanda Fallon, and this is the Surely You Can't Be Serious Podcast. 📍

 Hello, can you hear me? Okay?

 This is Clay Shirley's brother.

 February 23rd, 2025.

Our life was a very typical family life, you know, with the, my brothers and sisters and, and we had the typical Christmases and, and all of those things. And, uh, my sister was, um, three years older than me.

 I was born in 1944 in California. A rough time in history. 

We will gain the inevitable triumph, so help us, God. 📍

 My mother was al like the ultimate homemaker.

 My mom handmade most of my clothes.

 My big dream of grade school was to have five dresses so I could wear a different dress every day of the week to school.

 She was always the one that, uh, you know, it was keep the house clean and that there, but we all had our chores and you had to do your chores, you know, I mean, that was all part of the family thing.

 I had a great childhood. My mom was a fantastic and caring mom. She did her best to keep us on the straight and narrow. She wasn't into spankings, but she could lay an incredible guilt trip on you. You did not want her to catch you. Do anything wrong.

 I had a great childhood. My mom was a fantastic and caring mom. She did her best to keep us on the straight and narrow. She wasn't into spankings, but she could lay an incredible guilt trip on you. You did not want her to catch you doing anything wrong. I.

 Dad, on the other hand was grumpy. We just stayed out of his way.

I don't know what I did to provoke it, but early in life I must have really irritated him 'cause Dad gave me the nickname shit pot. He called me that most of his life.

 Dad, on the other hand was grumpy. We just stayed out of his way. I don't know what I did to provoke it, but early in life I must have really irritated him. 'cause Dad gave me the nickname shit pot. He'd called me that most of his life.

 My dad was a very heavy drinker but my mom would be the one, that would deliver punishment. I mean, she, you know, you, you screwed around you, you were gonna get 10 wax of the belt no matter what, and she'd just wait till you were asleep and she'd pull the covers down and you were getting Ted swings and that was the way it was.

And so, uh, if you crossed the line, you know, you knew you were gonna get it and you got it. She'd always say, you know, you'd rather your dad do this or you want me to do it. So she'd always use that line. But, uh, but I mean, you know, we had a good family when it comes to, we had a nice Christmas, you had a lot of nice everything, but, uh, you know, it was a Sterner family.

We didn't have a lot of money. So we had a big paper route, and then the paper route was that income helped the family. And uh, my dad worked in the steel mills and of course, every time they got one foot ahead, they'd go on strike and they get two feet behind.

 Americans at work, men whose strength is multiplied a thousand times in a product, they build Workers United to help strengthen our world. The United Steel Workers of America.

 Things were pretty tight financially. Um, because of that, I never had stuffed animals to play with. So one night I discovered I could pick little fuzz balls off of my blanket. I would cradle them in my fingers and fall asleep pretending it was a fuzzy bear. I.

 I did this for weeks, and then one night I had a brilliant idea. I decided I wanted a big bear to sleep with, so I pulled off dozens and dozens of fuzz balls and wadded them into a big ball. Mom came in, however.

 Mom came in, however, and took my fuzz ball and threw it away. Finally, on my 16th birthday, I received my first stuffed animal, an orange poodle.

 Were both your parents, uh, pretty religious.

My mother was.

 So anyhow, uh. She was a senior by the time I came into, uh high school.

 High school was fun, although I was one of the tallest kids in the class.

 I was given the nickname giraffe from all the kids.

 and so a lot of things that, you know, went on in her life with her girlfriends. They, they were like I say, three, four years older than me. And so I really, I. Short of seeing her girlfriends come and them doing this or that, I really, you know,

 I never really interacted with them. Uh, one of her friends though, was a mob boss's daughter.

Uh, Lorraine. Um, maroon. Yep. Yep, I remember that. Yep.

Uh, her father was, uh, Charlie Maroon, and he ran Bridgeport at that time.

All through grade school. I never had more than four dresses at a time. Lorraine, on the other hand, would go home at lunchtime and change into a new dress for the second half of the school day. I was so jealous of Lorraine.

Charlie Maroon owned lots of businesses in the front. The businesses looked normal, but in the back rooms they were filled with gambling devices.

Yeah. Oh yeah. He was a he was something else.

Yep. He had a big uh, . Well, they, I don't exactly what they did there, but Right. Not far from where we were down in the flats there in Bridgeport.

He had a big, uh, uh, place that semis pulled in and out of, I don't know, it was some kind of freight freight place and, uh, but it was big and yeah.

everyone in town knew what was going on with the mafia rivals,

including the kids. The police were clueless.

 One day Charlie came home and found 16 sticks of lit dynamite on his front porch. Father said I wasn't allowed to visit Lorraine at her house anymore.

 You know, Charlie maintained his reign until the day he died.

And then, uh, but uh, in high school, and this is where my memories come in, she was extremely popular.

 I was the editor of the school, newspaper and co-editor of the yearbook. My areas of talent were writing, designing, and drawing.  

However, I was always one of the last two people chosen to be on the kickball team in gym class.

 And She was very creative and artistic and, um, I just thought it was kind of brilliant, even as a little kid

There were things that she did that, you know, have stuck with me through the years. So it's like, my first bicycle was something that she dragged out of a dumpster and, um, and, and spent a couple of weeks sanding it, painting it, and, and yeah, my mom, you know, as a 20-year-old , she probably like 23, 24 by the time I was, um, you know, like four years old or so.

Okay. And, uh, when I say that there, I mean, she was involved in, you know, all of the, um, the help groups, the, uh, the home homemakers group, the cooking, uh, group.

 I also like to sow and bake and won the Homemaker of Tomorrow Award.

 Was at one time really good at sewing and whatnot, and, I mean, because I had a, a suit, a little, little suit, you know, that she made for me for Easter and my sister's dress and whatnot. And, um, so she made our clothes to, to look good in church and, and in church, um, trying to keep two little kids entertained and not misbehaving.

She made these felt books and I always thought, man, she should have capitalized on that. Yeah. Um, they were books made of felt and every page you turned usually had like a bible story or something, but they were activity type books. So, um, you know, you're a little kid and, uh, you have to teach your kid how to do buttons and do, um.

Tie your shoes and all that. So, you know, you'd flip open one page and it would be a felt boot with shoe laces. And so you'd practice tying your shoe and you'd flip over another one and, you know, you'd buttoning up a shirt, you know, and, um, and so there were like little activities and stories and these felt books that she would make, and those were really cool.

And that's how she kept us quiet in church.  

 And then she had a, a real close group of women that stayed her friends through her whole life. And, um, so much so that, um, like I say, she never really dated and then, um.

, She was an attractive girl, but she was more, a little bit homely than, uh, and she didn't wear a lot of makeup or any of those kind of things. And so she just, uh, was real big in her girlfriends. But, uh, she, um was so popular that, uh, she was voted homecoming queen her senior year, and, uh, she became, you know, the homecoming queen for,, St.

John's, central High School, and that's in Bel Air, Ohio.

 And then came homecoming. Usually the homecoming queen was the most popular and the prettiest girl in school.

 So at St. John's Catholic School, homecoming Queens, there was always the nice girl in class.

 I did not wanna be homecoming queen. The queen had to make a speech at the big senior bonfire. I lied and told everyone I had to babysit and couldn't go to the bonfire.

 And, uh, that was in, uh, in her senior year. Uh, that was a very, very big deal for her. And that was about the same time, um, that she, worked at a power company, uh, and then after she graduated in Bel Air Ohio. And, uh, she worked there as a secretary and she could do shorthand so fast. It was ridiculous. I mean, she could write and interpret, you know, shorthand. Like crazy.

She had a 57 Ford FAIRLANE 500 and it, and more than that, she bought it. It was a, when she bought it. Of course, I, I'm a kid. I mean, she goes and she buys this 57 Ford Fairlane. It was a three 90 interceptor special, the biggest engine ever made at that point, it was made for the Ohio State Patrol. Okay. And it was a, and so she bought this car, and now of course, I'm gaga over this car.

So, I mean, I, I mean, I made a duplicate of her car key and I used to, when she'd be at work, I'd go down and I'd sneak her car and drive it all over the place and then put it back. I even took orange, those orange, uh, parking cones and put it in the parking spot where I took it so I could make sure I got it back in the same spot.

But I took that car jewelry writing at least one or two, three times a week. Did she ever find out? No. No, she only, and finally, finally, in the end, she said, I hated that car. It got such terrible gas mileage. And I'm quite sure I didn't put in exactly as much as I used, but, uh, oh my God, I love that car. And a matter of fact, I love that car so much that when she sold it, I.

I would've done anything to have it. My dad made damn sure that I didn't have the opportunity to get it. 'cause he said, you get that car, you'll kill yourself in that car. So the car go like 150 miles an hour. Wow. It was absolutely a, a fire, a fire jet. One of the fastest cars of its time.

In that period of time. That's the time she met Eddie.

And um, from what I understand, teenage girl out at the beach with her friends at, uh, lake Erie.

And um, and that's where she met my dad. And my dad had just gotten out of prison and he was only like 1920 himself. And the reason they had let him out of prison is 'cause he lost his arm in prison.

Then of course, you know, I turned 20 and that's when I met Ed. I had actually had a date with the one of the neighborhood boys and he was supposed to be at the lake. On Father's Day, and at the last minute he had to stay home and I didn't know that.

So I went on out to the lake with my girlfriend to kind of meet Ronnie, but Ronnie wasn't there. So I spent Father's Day at the lake when I was supposed to be home celebrating with my own family, you know, mom gave me a bad time about that. But anyway, I went to the lake to meet Ronnie. And Ronnie wasn't there, but there was this guy named Ed who was there, him and he had a friend named Jim.

So they started, you know, they got real friendly and we're, you know, talking to us and everything. I was with my girlfriend Joe, and, um, so anyway. And he just said all the right words, you know, he was so charming and he was so handsome. He looked like, um, Paul Newman. He really looked like Paul Newman. And, um, anyway, we started dating.

And, uh, oh Lord, how do I even explain that? No, he was totally charming. I had never really had a boyfriend before. You know, I went out with Ronnie once. I had one other blind date before Ronnie, and basically that was it. I didn't date in high school. I just really never dated, you know, I was the tallest girl in the class.

Almost all the boys were shorter than me, so the boys didn't ask me out, and I was very, very shy. Very quiet, very, very shy. So I really didn't date, and this was the first guy that really paid attention to me, you know, and made me feel special and all of that stuff, you know? And, uh, so anyway, we did start dating you.

Uh, and he told me, you know, after we started dating quite a bit, that um, he, he had lost his arm and at the beginning he told me he had lost it in, um, a car accident. Okay. Well then he admitted that he, no, that was not true. So he was a lawyer at the beginning. So he had lost his arm actually about a year before I met him. He lost it in prison. He had gone to prison for car theft. I did not realize that I was marrying a literally a professional thief his whole life.

 Good evening. The day is Saturday, February 9th, 1963. Police reported Friday that two Uves held in Louisville, Kentucky had admitted breaking into seven wheeling business establishments, including one that was destroyed by fire. They were identified as Victor Evol, 19 of Wheeling and Edward R. Carroll of Dylan Vale, Ohio.

The two were arrested in Louisville on an auto theft charge. Police said the two left a candle burning that caused the fire in the male lady dress shop last Wednesday. Police reported that the youth said they got a thousand dollars in the robberies, five of which occurred last Wednesday with WCSC Channel five.

  I'm Bob Harter News at nine .

 But Eddie had, uh, been, uh, he, he robbed a, a drive-in movie theater, . And, uh, ultimately he got caught and, and ultimately he got put in prison and, um. Uh, so he, he is in prison, but before that happened, Eddie's dad was the most brutal asshole in the entire world. He used to beat that kid, uh, with his fist until he couldn't even walk.

Oh my God. And. Oh yeah. His dad was the brutal, most brutal person that you could ever meet. And his mom was a, a total absolute 100% loser. So e Eddie, and I'm not justifying what he did, but uh, he had a hell of a life, just a hell of a life as much as I hate and all the things he did to my sister, it's hard to get past how he ended up being the way he was.

And, and, uh, so anyhow, make a long story short. He gets, he decides that, uh, he is going to, uh, rob this drive-in movie theater, and he gets caught again. Ultimately, he gets caught. So now it's in prison and his in work detail, except he don't wanna work. So he had this bright idea that he would put his arm into the washing machine and break his arm.

 An inmate at West Virginia Penitentiary has been hospitalized after a freak accident. During work release, Edward Carroll of Wheeling was rushed after sustaining injuries fit for a horror picture. The man was in critical condition upon arrival at Western State Hospital where he is expected to make a full recovery. 

Well, he puts his arm into the washing machine and it rips his arm off oh my gosh. Oh, yeah, yeah. He put his arm into a washing machine on purpose to get out of work detail, and it literally pulled his arm off his body with his lung and with his shoulder and the muscles all, all with it.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. So now he gets out and now he's in recovery. They don't put him back in prison. I mean, the kid, the kid is, what was he, 18 years old? 19 years old, somewhere in there. He's a young guy and now he gets out and that's where Shirley met him.

 But I thought, oh, I can, I can save this guy. I can help him, I can help him to change my love, could change this man. So, anyway. A prison thing I didn't care about, you know? So anyway, we, but did your mom and dad? My mom and dad were not happy, especially when I told them about this. They didn't like him to start with, to tell the truth, first of all, you know, I was Catholic and he wasn't.

So we had that to start with, you know? And uh, and then when they found out he had been in prison, they were really unhappy about us dating. And then of course. When you start dating a while, he started pressuring me for the sex and the pressure got too much. And of course I gave in..

And I remember, I will never forget one night we were way out in the sticks and the Culver battery went dead.

We had to walk. Uh, a couple miles to get to the town, you know, where we can use a, a phone, since there was no cell phones, a payphone, so he called, he only had one friend. He called his one friend. He couldn't get hold of him. I had to call, I called my brother to come out and bring the charger, you know, to get the car going.

I didn't tell him, I told him where to meet me. I didn't tell him where the car was. I said, just meet me at isle's. Okay. My brother shows up with my dad. I thought, oh my gosh. So we get in the car and we start driving down this dirt road. And we're going further and further and my brother keeps turning around.

He's in the front seat with my dad. He was turned around and he is laughing his head off. He knows he knows what was going on. Way out there in the sticks. Oh my gosh. I thought I, I'm gonna be killed tonight. My parents are going to kill me tonight. Finally, we got to the car and my dad jumps the car and we go home and I was really shocked.

Dad never said anything to my mom. Hmm. My, you know, my mom says everything. Okay. And I go, so yeah, the car, you know, battery wouldn't start. And you know, dad and Clay came out to help us and that's all I said. And Dad never ever said, you know, about the situation. So I really appreciated that.

Dad had rescued me a couple times, you know, we didn't have a close relationship.

Because when he got back from the Army, he started drinking a lot. He had never drunk before and he started drinking. He was just loud and yelled a lot and I just stayed out of his way. We all did. When he came home drinking, we just all went to our rooms and just stayed out of his way.

So, you know, my dad was my rescuer. There were times in my life that he was there to rescue me, but he was not happy about Ed either, you know? Yeah. Oh. But, um, anyway, so then I end up pregnant and then I thought, oh my gosh, how am I going to tell my mom and dad? Right? And I kept hoping I'd really lose the baby, you know?

Mm-hmm. And of course, abortion was totally out the question, you know? This was in 1965 that Eddie was born. So anyway, I am pregnant and I'm trying to hide it. And throwing up every morning, you know, with morning sickness. So my mom comes to me and she goes, Shirley, are you pregnant?

And I go, oh God. I goes, um, yeah. So she was really upset. So she says, well, you need to get married. You know, there was, you know, no other option, you know. We did. We had a, you know, a small wedding. So anyway, um, he wasn't working at the time. He rarely worked during our whole marriage.

When I was born, um,

I ruined my mom and dad's movie night.

That's my earliest memory about me, you know, because I was told repeatedly how mad my dad got because they were at the movies, he was a drive-in and when my mom went into labor and um, so they had to race across town. And the only hospital is on the other side of the river in Wheeling, West Virginia. So it's always been a point of contention for me because people, well, where were you born?

Well, the birth certificate says Bridgeport, Ohio and lists the address for Wheeling West Virginia. So it's one of those confusing birth certificates right from the start, you know, it's like, well technically I was born in West Virginia, but everybody who lived in Bridgeport, Ohio was born in Wheeling, West Virginia.

'Cause that's where the hospital is on the other side of the river.

Okay. So 1965.

So he got $5,000 settlement from losing his arm in prison.

So he wants to move to South Africa, Johannesburg, South Africa. So he talks me into going to Johannesburg. This was right after I had had the baby. So the baby is six months old and I'm pregnant again. Now my mom does not know when I left for Africa that I was pregnant with a second baby.

 After half a century, the Union of South Africa has withdrawn from the British family of nations. Racial discrimination remains her policy and she will not apply for continued membership of the Commonwealth from the burden of apartheid. The colored people out there will not be released

No one objects to Commonwealth Republics. Racial discrimination is another matter, but the door remains open. May the union abandon Apartheid and South Africa return to the British Commonwealth.

 Okay. So we arrive in Johannesburg, South Africa. We know nobody there, neither one of us have a job. We spent about a thousand dollars to get there. So we have about $4,000 left. So the first thing we do is find, um, a hotel. So we got a hotel room and uh, and then actually he got a job and I got a job.

My first interview, however, I wrecked the car on my way to the interview, so I never made it. You and cars I know seems to be a common thing. Well, they drive on the opposite side of the road than what we do, and they don't have any stop signs like we do. All of their signs are on the road and I didn't see the stop sign in time.

So I went through it and a car hit me and, um. So I never made it to that interview, so I didn't get that job. And, uh, the car was pretty banged up, but it was drivable. So anyway, I had a, I got another interview a couple days later and I got a job for an insurance company over there. So he got a job for a car dealer and I got a job with an insurance company and only we had a baby, so we had to find.

A babysitter. Mm-hmm. And we had an awesome, uh, housekeeper at the hotel and she introduced us to her sister and she babysat for us. So that was a real life saver. And she also helped us to find a place to live. Uh, people just absolutely. Um, there, there was no places to rent. There was a lot of people moving into Johannesburg and it was, there was a waiting list on every apartment we went to.

Mm-hmm. It was really, really hard to find a place and she recommended this one place and he, you know, let us go ahead and, um, you know, uh, he considered us and, and so we moved in there, but then we had to buy furniture. We had no furniture. It wasn't furnished, so that took a big chunk of our money and, um.

But we both had jobs. I think I made $200 a month and it made about the same. And then, uh, once we got our own place, then we hired a lady who came and stayed during the day. 'cause we were taking Eddie to, uh, a lady to take care of. So Gladys was the name of the, um, lady who would, um, who was the babysitter.

And she also did housework. She even cooked for us. And she, we paid her high, we paid her $20 a month. That was more than normal. Normally they get 15 and she was so wonderful that we paid her $20 a month. So anyway, she was just awesome and, uh, so we had her all the time that we were there. Uh, Eddie was a little slow walking because she had this like papoose type of thing that she.

Wore and she carried him around on her back. Every place she went. When she went up, we didn't have a washing machine or a dryer. She washed all of her clothes by hand in the tub. She carried them up to the roof of the apartment and hung them up. And Eddie on her back while she is doing everything. Like I said, she was awesome.

So they spent the first year of our life there, uh, my life, you know, in Africa. And, um. Got pictures of me on the, the nanny with her big, uh, laundry bin. And I have like the vaguest recollect. I'll ca you know, I I probably from the eight millimeter movies I watched and stuff like that, you know, 'cause it's like I carry the memories of this big woman who used to carry me on her back all day long, you know, with a giant thing of laundry on her head.

So anyway, we were there for six months. We were trying to get. Um, kind of permanent residency there. 'cause we both had jobs. We were actually looking at a house to buy. We had made friends, um, mostly with um, people from Holland and from Canada. English people were very unfriendly to us. Hmm. Very, very, very cold.

We did not make any friends from the English people. I worked with a couple of network work. It was like, if they couldn't better themself by knowing you, they didn't wanna be bothered with you. But surprisingly the blacks were incredibly nice to us. Mm-hmm. We got lost down in the black section more than once, and they all came over and they saw the baby in the stroller and wanted to give him a biscuit, you know, or cookie.

And, um, helped us find our way out of the, the wrong section where we're not supposed to be. And I mean, we made really more friends with black people. Hmm. And when we got our own place, we invited, you know, the, the mate from the, the hotel who had helped us to our house for dinner. And you normally you do not do that.

And she invited us to her house down in the black section for dinner. Mm-hmm. And we went down there. She was just awesome.

Okay. In South Africa, he's telling me about this lady. He meets name is Miss Joffe, and all of a sudden he's spending a whole lot of time with Ms. Joffe. He, she's teaching him how to ride a horse and who knows what else. So that's when I started, first started suspecting that maybe he was having an affair. I. There, but we ended up leaving and so I just kind of let it go.

So anyway, we were trying to get permanent residency there and so, um. Okay. We had some paperwork to fill out and in the paperwork it said, you know, have you ever had a record?

And I told Ed, I says, you need, you need to be truthful. You need to tell them about your record because they're going to find out, right? And then we will have lied to them. And, uh, so I says, you have to tell them. And so he did. He filled that out. But then he put this little note that he isn't gonna kiss anybody's ass to stay in this country.

Well, guess what? They denied our, you know, you don't act like that. He had an attitude. Prob he had an attitude, which was ridiculous, you know, so denied. We had to pack up and leave. We had like two weeks to be out of the country. Because you were there on a six month visa? We, we were there on a six month visa.

Okay. Yeah. So we had to pack up and leave, so, and how far along are you at this point? Oh, I am beyond what I'm supposed to be on an airplane. You know, being pregnant. Mm-hmm. So I had this really full coat, so I wore this really full coat so people wouldn't know that I was pregnant. And I got on the plane and I thought I could have this baby on the plane, you know?

But I didn't, you know, we made it home. So of course, and then we left all of our stuff that we had shipped. We had shipped all of this stuff, all of our wedding presents, you know, everything we own, we shipped to Africa. Well then we couldn't afford to bring anything back because we were running out of money.

You know, 'cause we had to pay, you know, buy the airline tickets and now, you know, um, you know, we, we just didn't have the money to, uh, to um, to ship everything back. Mm-hmm. So we left basically all of our wedding presents. I gave everything to Gladys, you know, I said, you know, take what you want, Gladys. And you know, so anyway, so we came back with virtually nothing, you know, and we stayed with his parents for a little while.

'cause. My mom, you know, had more kids. Their, their house was full.

So we stayed with his parents for a short period and then, um, we decided, he decided to move to California. A friend of ours had a friend in California and he says, oh, why don't you come on on here? You know, I can help you get a job, you know?

Um. Come to California. Mm-hmm. So anyway, so we packed up the car and we drove to California and we had enough money for the first month's rent. And um, he had a hard time finding a job and he wasn't finding a job. And I had the baby. We actually had to go on welfare. So we went on welfare, you know, I had the baby.

You know, I have like literally one baby memory, you know, um, of being swung around in an apartment, you know, in a good way or a bad way. Um, I. Uh, in, in a good way. Yeah. Yeah. Or as far as far as I remember. But you know, I, I, I remember an apartment in California and being swung around by my dad, you know, just normal kid stuff.

And I couldn't have been two, three years old. And that's probably like my earliest childhood visual memory, you know? And it's just a flash of a memory, you know? And, um,

So now we're back in California. So we get to California and um, I get a job with a, um, an air craft engineering company, Collins Engineering. And I worked there for about a month. And then, uh, I got a job with, um, Hughes Aircraft Company, which was a really good job.

Okay. So I'm working at Hughes. I've got a sweetheart of a boss, Leo gei. Oh my gosh. He was like a grandpa to me. He was just the sweetest man. And, uh. Anyway, ed still isn't working and so he is supposed to be babysitting, but uh, he tells me he can't babysit because he has to go out and look for jobs. Most of the time he just spent hanging out in coffee shops, splitting with waitresses and no jobs.

So I ended up getting a babysitter. So I'm paying a babysitter and I'm working, and, um, he's just. Isn't helping at all, you know, and all he's doing is he's gone all the time. He's always flirting with everybody. And I just suspected he was having an affair. But anyway, um, so this opening comes on swing shift and so I thought, okay, he can babysit on swing shift that gives him all day to go look for a job.

So the deal was I would work the swing shift and he would babysit. And so one night I was at work and I just had a real uneasy feeling. And so at lunchtime I took a break and I came home and I go up into the house. No, ed, the kids are locked in the bedroom. They are two and three. Uh, Cole is in the crib.

Eddie is playing on the floor. He has broken, he got into the. The closet and took out the Christmas ornaments, broke a couple of them, and there's glass all over the floor. And here he is walking around in glass and I look out the window across at the, at the, um, apartment across from us. And there is Ed over there with a single woman, you know, hanging out with her when he's supposed to be home.

And so I am furious. So I go over and I bang on the door, tell him, you know, hopefully with both kids in tow Oh. Cleaned up the mess. And anyway, I tell him, I'm not dealing with this anymore. I gave my resignation at work and I says, I'm going back home. I, I don't wanna be with you anymore. So I literally packed up and he drove me back home.

And then he came back out to California and I moved in with my mom, with the two kids. And I forget exactly how long I was there. Maybe a couple months and then, you know, he's calling all the time and he said, I got a job. I've changed. Everything is really good. I found a house for us. You know, I need you to come back.

You know, everything has changed and you know, you don't have to work anymore and all of this. And like an idiot, you know, I went back and, um, so anyway, he had gotten a job of, I don't even remember where some cut out store. He was in retail. So anyway, everything was going fairly good. I wasn't working. Um, the kids weren't in school yet.

They were still pretty young. And then the police comes to my house and they arrest him saying that he's been making obscene phone calls. So I thought, oh my God. So anyway.

He of course denies it. I have no idea what he said. It's usually a sexual nature. Uh, obscene is usually phone calls of a sexual nature. Okay. So, and they were to my friends, to my girlfriend.

I thought that you had made in California or back home in Ohio? No, these are people that I had worked with in, in California. Okay. So anyway, so he said he's not going to jail. So he decides he is going to take his death. And this is before the, like he's supposed to see a judge. Yeah. So is he out on bail right now?

He's out on bail right now. His, he has like a court date set? Yes, yes. Okay. And, uh, so he decides he's not going back to jail. So what he does, he comes out with this really elaborate plan to fake his own death.

Yes. So what he does, he rents the boat and he gets his friend to help him. So him and his friend both rent separate boats and then they take their fishing stuff. And so what he does with the help of his friends, they try to flip the boat.

So the boat that he had rented, and it took quite a while, and they finally flipped the boat and he went off with his friend and went into hiding. And the police comes to my door and say that, you know, uh, they found the boat he had rented, but he isn't in it, that they. You know, possibly he may have drowned, you know?

do you remember that Eddie took a sailboat out? Oh, this, that's, that's yet another story. So after any, yeah, you tell me that story.

Eddie goes out in the boat and of course then they find the boat floating in the water and his not in it. And, uh, they did a big search for him and they never found it.

And so they came back and, uh, told her that they found this boat. He wasn't in him. And then he was presumed drowned.

And, uh, after that, so now she's living in California by herself. And, uh, uh, she is taking care of the kids and she's working at Raytheon.

And then my brother goes and visits her right after this happened with Eddie. And I remember my brother calling me vividly and he'd just say, he said, yeah, he says, he says, you think he's dead?

And I said, yeah. I said, I kind of think he might be, you know? And so that, and my brother goes over off of leave. He goes back to Vietnam and then he's killed just, uh, like a, a very short time later. Mm-hmm. In Vietnam. So when he died, he really thought Eddie was dead. And when my brother got killed mm-hmm.

 Today is 20th of December, 1969. The Defense Department Friday identified three Ohioans killed in Vietnam. They were specialist four, Thomas t Tom, sick, Sergeant David R. Jackson, and specialist four William S. Barrett, son of Mr. And Mrs. Clayton h Barrett Bridgeport. William Bill Barrett was a crew chief and was getting ready to break when another crew chief came up to him. His helicopter was out of commission and asked to use bills. Bill said yes, but then decided to give him a break and go in his stead. The helicopter lifted into the air, but then the pilot got vertigo and the chopper crashed to the ground, killing everyone on board.

 And, um, and he died. Of course, you probably had that, that word on that when he got killed and the helicopter crashed. Yeah, I remember Shirley saying that, uh, she was really close to that brother and she's so glad that he came out and spent time with her, but he ended up getting some speeding tickets.

Well, he was out sent to, sent to your mom and dad's house. Well, if we were talking about him, I could tell you stories about him, but, uh, anyhow, we, I won't go there. But, uh, the point is, is, yep. So Shirley had a relationship with him, but I know he went out and saw her, you know, and, uh, really was down about, uh, Eddie's disappearing in a boat.

 Billy was due to return to the military base to be deployed to Vietnam, and he wasn't ready. So he extended his stay with me in California and was awol. Well, he ended up getting some speeding tickets that were sent to my parents' house in Ohio. So my mother knew we had been lying, but I'm so glad he came out to spend that time with me because I didn't realize that would be the last time I would ever see him.  

Uncle Bill, the one we lost, um, it was the coolest one of the three, you know, the, the other, you know, clay's great.

Bruce is great, you know, and um, and I remember Bruce from when he was a teenage boy 'cause he's the youngest. Him, him and Lori. And, um, and of course Lori, she was not much older than me, you know, so I was like a, a little heart struck kid with this pretty blonde who was chasing me around the pool table every time I'd go to visit, you know?

And, um, and, and Bruce, he was cool 'cause he made those model ships. Inside a bottle. Right. And had really nice Spanish galleon sailboats. He'd build these beautiful models, you know? And, um, so I thought he was really cool, uh, for that. But, but

Bill, um, he, he was the one everybody loved. He was, uh, the outgoing one.

And, um, um, well, Clay's very outgoing too, but, but Bill was, he was, he was the, the athlete, the superstar, the handsome boy. I mean, bill had it all. And, um, yeah, we pulled his picture. Yeah. And Amanda was like, pretty handsome. I'm like, he's handsome. Yeah. And he, uh, he um, and you probably know that he, he did his tour duty and came back and then the draft came up for.

Bruce is the younger brother and so he is like, I'll go instead. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. And um, and I think that that's part of the reason Bruce has always been so quiet. He's a very quiet guy. 'cause his older brother took his place and didn't come back.

And um, and if I noticed it as a little kid, you know, um, and it crushed me too because we were living in California and he came to visit my mom and us and gosh, I really little, maybe five I'm, I'm guessing, you know, 'cause I still have a strong recollection of it. And the um, and was literally. Stopped to visit us in uniform,

um, on his way back to the war. And, um,

one of those valuable life lessons that you get too early. Um,

he gave me a school bus, toy school bus, and it was, um, remember when they used to make stamped metal? Not cast metal, but stamp steel, um, almost like a bread box. Mm-hmm. You know, thing. But it was one of those, and it a very detailed little school bus. Well. Five, what I care about a school bus. Right. You know, what amazed me about it?

And, um, he, uh, you know, so he, he comes, he looks so handsome and pretty. He's wearing a, his formal outfit, you know, getting, going to report in. And, um, so he just, uh, he looked like a hero. Acted like a hero,

but, uh,

I don't know how long passed, but, um, I was playing with school bus and um, and it was tempted. Really easily. And, um, playing with it in the backyard with my other cars and everything and just, I play smash up derby because look, this one dents and I kind of destroyed it and

talk about timing. It was like almost immediately after, or at least that's the way it was perceived by me as a little kid.

Um,

they come in with the news, uh, my mom tells me that.

He died in a helicopter crash.

And alls I could think of

was that the last thing he gave me is all smashed up, you know, and that's what changed me as a, a little kid, that I was never destructive with my stuff after that, you know, it, it, it really, really hit, hit me, you know? And, um, but yeah. Uh.

Just a sobering thing. Yeah. Los losing, losing bill really had an impact on the, on the family, you know,

that was one of his last thoughts was, you know, he was worried about her. With the, uh, you know, Eddie being gone. And then, so then some years go by and, uh, uh, Shirley had got some suspicions that something was going on with, and that Eddie might not be really dead, and she got a inkling of that from some of a couple of Eddie's friends that he had known and let a couple things slip that caused her to really have some questions.

   And then, but you knew the plan. I knew the plan. Like you knew, oh my gosh, I knew the plan. And so he has no place to go. So he comes back to our house and he's hiding in our house, you know, well, the police are looking for his body. And I says, you know, you got to get out here. You need to get outta here. 

 In the meantime, right before he died, he took out a $10,000 insurance policy on his life before he disappeared. And so anyhow, uh, then outta the blue, one day Eddie called her and of course, um, she notified the insurance company that he was alive and, you know, and they demanded, she returned the money they had paid out to her.

 And then. My mom's ever evolving stories, you know, and then same like with the whole speedboat, you know, uh,, fake death. And it's like, um, I'm not, from my perspective and the way I thought it, it went down and years later, reflecting back on it is that, well that's just the story that she made up, you know, to answer little kids, you know, saying, well, don't I have a dad?

You know, you where's my dad? Why do my friends all have dads, but I don't have a dad? You know? And um,, it seemed to me like more of a off the cuff made up story of his disappearance. And I guess they just kind of went with it over the years because yeah, we were told, uh, he died in a boating accident, you know?

I always heard that he faked his death like rented a boat, flipped it, faked his death, collected the entrance.

Al who's story was that? So we, we heard it from your mom and then we heard it from Clay. Mm-hmm. And then we found the newspaper clipping from 1969. So how old would you have been in 1969 when that happened? Three, four? Yeah. So you were little. Mm-hmm. Do you remember? Mm-hmm. That. Do you remember?

 The Coast Guard has called off the search for a Culver City man who went missing Wednesday. This after authorities found his rented boat burned off the coast at Redondo Beach, coast Guard officials say Edward Carroll rented a 16 foot power boat at the Redondo Beach Pier. Search crews found charred remains of that boat, six and a half miles out at sea.

The Sea shark, a Coast Guard cutter, discovered the wreckage at 10:30 AM. The Coast Guard officially ended its search late this afternoon.

And so in the meantime, uh, he has insurance. So the insurance pays a few thousand dollars. So he takes the insurance money and then he heads up to Alaska. No, he went someplace before Alaska because he got arrested there, and that's when they found out that he wasn't dead because he got arrested for stealing some lady's purse.

So then they realized he wasn't dead. So the insurance company calls me and they want the money back. Well, he has the money, so I don't have these thousands of dollars. So it took me like 10 years to pay back this money. You paid it back. I had to pay. Yeah, it had to be paid back. They gave it to, to me. You paid back the money.

They gave it to me. So, you know, it had to be paid back. So, um, anyway, um, but, so, so. Now, does he have a warrant out for his arrest though? For a false Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's, yeah. Yeah. So now, now there's a warrant out for his arrest, so he decides to go up to Alaska. So he changes his name and he goes up to Alaska.

So that he starts calling me and wanting to get back together. I have changed. I have changed, you know, I'm a different person, you know, and my family all thinks he's dead.

You know what? Hold, you know, because I didn't tell them that he got, that they found him in another state and that he's alive and he is up in Alaska. I didn't tell my family any of that as far as my family, as far as his mother and dad knew he was dead. Everybody thought he was dead. Hold on. So who made that phone call?

Did you call his scrambling and tell him that he was dead or did the police No, I, I told everybody, police, I told everybody he was dead. You told everybody he was dead. I told everybody he was dead because, you know, how did you, how did that, were you in shock? Were you? I was a mess. How did that make you feel?

A mess. I was a mess. It was ridiculous. It was horrible. It was horrible. I can't imagine I wasn't a liar. And to be with him. A constant line. Oh, I didn't even tell you about all this. Okay. I forgot the part. In California, he didn't work, but he stole stuff all the time. We had a stolen car in our garage. We had all kind of stolen equipment.

Uh, I don't know where he got all this stuff, but our house was spilled with stolen stuff. He was an absolute thief. Uhhuh, you know, and yeah, he had this car and he stripped down the car and used parts to fix up our car and then he towed it and dumped it someplace. So yeah, , I can't even tell you how much stolen stuff we had in our house, you know?

And then the, uh, then like I said, he, he disappeared from our lives we're told. And it's not till, you know, years later when you're a little kid that start asking questions that, you know, the whole, you know, died in a boating accident story, you know, comes up and, and then you just drop it, you know?

Okay. That's the answer. And you just run with that. And then the new story, you know, few years later when, when I said about, um, at the, what would've been the end of first grade, second grade, um, you know, I remember literally I remember the conversation and us sitting in, in our, our house in California with this long red porch. . Her, you know, telling us the, how he'd been found with amnesia and wants us , to come back and 📍 everything.

 Coming up next time.

um, and I was there to make sure he's really dead. 'cause I'd heard this before,

We lived in the car until we could find a place that we could afford because we had so many car repairs, we ran outta money and we had no place to live.

 and so he put me in the Cinderella dress and I'd have to work my way back to my underwear. I think he was fighting with his new wife. And she shot him 📍

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shirley-you-cant-be-serious/id1830515861?i=1000722504722